Mark Spizzirri: Identity Crisis

Except for the Cleary signing I don't have a problem with it. If the kids aren't ready don't rush them. And if they are it's not like the guys that might be blocking them have bad seven year contracts. Might not get much, but they should be tradeable if the kids are ready.

Besides, it's not like there isn't going to be any kids in the lineup already. No point in bringing the entire Griffins roster all at once.

If Mantha is getting 50 goals a year and still down in GR three years from now I'll flip out though.

Here's what I think is fundamentally wrong about Ken Holland's philosophy for filling out a roster:

Ken Holland's philosophy seems to be to over-build. Go out and get as many veteran guys as you possibly can fit under the cap so you always have one to plug in in case of injury. You don't actually have to demonstrate that you're better than an AHL guy, you just need to to have shown that you're able to play 12 minutes a night without looking like a total dumpster fire. Hey, better to have as many guys as possible that you know can grind out 10-12 minutes, just in case, right?

I'm not a GM, but if I were one my philosophy on team building would basically be that, even if you spend your money wisely and target the correct players, you still probably won't be able to put together more than 9-10 forwards and 4-5 defenders who are meaningfully better than replacement level. So go out and build your top 3 lines and top 4 or 5 defenders, then leave spaces open so that you can give guys the opportunity to win jobs in camp, or you can audition young players for 10-15 games at a time throughout the season.

Sure, maybe the young guys show they aren't ready yet and you need to go out and find a veteran or two to plug in on your bottom line. But here's the thing -- if you run into that problem you can go out and get that non-dumpster-fire 10-minute veteran at ANY time, basically for free. A week before camp, during camp, midway through the season, whenever. They're sitting out there as un-signed free agents, or they're on AHL-only deals and available to sign with any team, or they're playing in Europe with an out clause (they'd be subject to waivers then, but nobody is going to claim a random fourth liner), or in the absolute worst case scenario you might have to flip a 7th-round pick to get some 30-year-old NHL/AHL journeyman off somebody else's farm.

There's no reason to have 5 replacement-level forwards on one-way contracts signed in July. None. If you lose out on signing Dan Cleary or Luke Glendening or whoever in July, so effing what? You can go out and get a guy just as good in October if you absolutely have to and it won't cost you any extra. There is no penalty for waiting, and the potential upside is that if a young guy goes out and wins a job in camp you actually have a spot for him.

forwards arent the problem. the group will be fine.


the defense is the issue. they needed to get better.
still the same (frank)ing group

Here's what I think is fundamentally wrong about Ken Holland's philosophy for filling out a roster:

Ken Holland's philosophy seems to be to over-build. Go out and get as many veteran guys as you possibly can fit under the cap so you always have one to plug in in case of injury. You don't actually have to demonstrate that you're better than an AHL guy, you just need to to have shown that you're able to play 12 minutes a night without looking like a total dumpster fire. Hey, better to have as many guys as possible that you know can grind out 10-12 minutes, just in case, right?

I'm not a GM, but if I were one my philosophy on team building would basically be that, even if you spend your money wisely and target the correct players, you still probably won't be able to put together more than 9-10 forwards and 4-5 defenders who are meaningfully better than replacement level. So go out and build your top 3 lines and top 4 or 5 defenders, then leave spaces open so that you can give guys the opportunity to win jobs in camp, or you can audition young players for 10-15 games at a time throughout the season.

Sure, maybe the young guys show they aren't ready yet and you need to go out and find a veteran or two to plug in on your bottom line. But here's the thing -- if you run into that problem you can go out and get that non-dumpster-fire 10-minute veteran at ANY time, basically for free. A week before camp, during camp, midway through the season, whenever. They're sitting out there as un-signed free agents, or they're on AHL-only deals and available to sign with any team, or they're playing in Europe with an out clause (they'd be subject to waivers then, but nobody is going to claim a random fourth liner), or in the absolute worst case scenario you might have to flip a 7th-round pick to get some 30-year-old NHL/AHL journeyman off somebody else's farm.

There's no reason to have 5 replacement-level forwards on one-way contracts signed in July. None. If you lose out on signing Dan Cleary or Luke Glendening or whoever in July, so effing what? You can go out and get a guy just as good in October if you absolutely have to and it won't cost you any extra. There is no penalty for waiting, and the potential upside is that if a young guy goes out and wins a job in camp you actually have a spot for him.
- Sven22

I agree and was in the middle of writing my post when I lost it (got re-directed to another page). Thank you for basically saying what I wanted to say so I didn't have to re-write my post. Would also add that giving the prospects open spots to compete for would also serve as extra motivation to them (the dangling carrot if you will) to get better and win that spot.

I also think that giving the prospects some NHL games earlier could up their value in trades allowing for better trade chips if there isn't enough room for them instead of waiting until the last minute when they have to clear waivers with little to no NHL experience or numbers and lose them for nothing.

It is bad asset management to me and at some point those prospects will get very annoyed that they have no chance to make the team in camp. I doubt Mrazek, Jurco, Mantha and a couple of the prospects are very happy going into camp this year knowing the only way they make the team is if injuries hit.

**Trade Nyquist & Tatar to Buffalo, for Tyler Myers & Drew Stafford.**


Speed up the time table a bit for the sake of guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg & Franzen... And bring back Alfredson for another go!

It's hard to make the playoffs with your 2 best players injured half the yr, & the Wings hung in there. It's an easy time to panic, but I'd stay the course.

Gotta get steadier goaltending too. Jim Howard really just couldn't keep it togeather last yr. Probably shoulda signed Michigan's own; Ryan Miller via UFA. And then traded Jim Howard for that Top4, RH, d-man you're looking for.

**Trade Nyquist & Tatar to Buffalo, for Tyler Myers & Drew Stafford.**


Speed up the time table a bit for the sake of guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg & Franzen... And bring back Alfredson for another go!

It's hard to make the playoffs with your 2 best players injured half the yr, & the Wings hung in there. It's an easy time to panic, but I'd stay the course.

Gotta get steadier goaltending too. Jim Howard really just couldn't keep it togeather last yr. Probably shoulda signed Michigan's own; Ryan Miller via UFA. And then traded Jim Howard for that Top4, RH, d-man you're looking for.
- SuperCat

No thanks to that trade. That would add 9.5 million of cap hits while barely giving any back for starters basically putting the Wings over the cap. That's even before getting into the fact I wouldn't want Stafford and his 4 million cap hit even if he was put on waivers and I wouldn't deal Nyquist in any trade for Myers.

**Trade Nyquist & Tatar to Buffalo, for Tyler Myers & Drew Stafford.**


Speed up the time table a bit for the sake of guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg & Franzen... And bring back Alfredson for another go!

It's hard to make the playoffs with your 2 best players injured half the yr, & the Wings hung in there. It's an easy time to panic, but I'd stay the course.

Gotta get steadier goaltending too. Jim Howard really just couldn't keep it togeather last yr. Probably shoulda signed Michigan's own; Ryan Miller via UFA. And then traded Jim Howard for that Top4, RH, d-man you're looking for.
- SuperCat

Terrible trade. We've already decided we simply can't make a deal with buffalo for Myers. What we consider fair trade of the assets we have available to move combined with our untouchables buffalo fans scoff.

We aren't trading Nyquist or mantha. Period.

Kindl, Tatar and a second for myers. That's the best it gets. You can swap Tatar for jurco, or swap Sproul or Ouellette for Kindl.

Terrible trade. We've already decided we simply can't make a deal with buffalo for Myers. What we consider fair trade of the assets we have available to move combined with our untouchables buffalo fans scoff.

We aren't trading Nyquist or mantha. Period.

Kindl, Tatar and a second for myers. That's the best it gets. You can swap Tatar for jurco, or swap Sproul or Ouellette for Kindl.
- digitalbath

I wouldn`t swap anything. If they won`t take Kindl, Tatar and a 2nd I would tell them to keep him. That`s enough to give for a guy who might never be more than a 2nd pair defenseman that is overpaid.

... If we, for some reason, lose Tatar and/or DeKeyser, I'm becoming a Bruins fan.

... If we, for some reason, lose Tatar and/or DeKeyser, I'm becoming a Bruins fan.
- YzermanIsTheMan

even if tatar leaving meant we upgraded our D and potentially became a better team overall?

i dont want to lose him either, but we have only a few years before datsyuk is done, we have a lot of forwards, someone with value has to be moved to get value in return, tatar is that guy to me

even if tatar leaving meant we upgraded our D and potentially became a better team overall?

i dont want to lose him either, but we have only a few years before datsyuk is done, we have a lot of forwards, someone with value has to be moved to get value in return, tatar is that guy to me
- digitalbath

I meant to UFA if we can't sign him for some reason, like Alfie being resigned or some similar dumb poop.

I meant to UFA if we can't sign him for some reason, like Alfie being resigned or some similar dumb poop.
- YzermanIsTheMan

oh gotcha, yeah that would be awful.

oh gotcha, yeah that would be awful.
- digitalbath

I would lose the 20% of faith I still have for Holland completely. (frank). That. Noise.

even if tatar leaving meant we upgraded our D and potentially became a better team overall?

i dont want to lose him either, but we have only a few years before datsyuk is done, we have a lot of forwards, someone with value has to be moved to get value in return, tatar is that guy to me
- digitalbath

I could live with trading Tatar or some other young players or prospects for a clear proven upgrade. I don't think Myers is at this point (could be in the future but isn't really right now) so it's a risk. Green given his injury history and declining stats to go along with him being able to leave after this season is also a risk. If I'm trading a package including Tatar or some of the other young players or prospects, I would like someone with less question marks to them.